PRABHUPĀDA: So these are
opulences: wealth, strength,
fame, beauty, knowledge and
renunciation—six things. Anyone
who possess all these six
opulences in full, He is God. That
is the definition of God. Anyone,
so when Kṛṣṇa was present on
this earth, He showed His
opulence, opulences, in full.
Opulences in full. Of course, we
have got all these historical
records about Him. Now, so far
His wealth is concerned, He had
16,108 wives. And for each of
them, for each of them, He built
a palace. And all those palaces
were so nicely built that there
was no need of electricity or
light. It was bedecked with
jewels. So day and night, they
were blazing. You see? So these
description are there. But if we
forget that, that He is God, then
this will be something like story,
that “How a man can marry
sixteen wives, thousand?” But we
should always remember that He
is God. He is all-powerful. And for
no other person such historical
records are there, only for Kṛṣṇa.
So in strength also nobody could
conquer Him. And beauty… So
far beauty is concerned, when He
was on the battlefield… Have you
seen any picture of Kṛṣṇa? Have
you seen? Oh, no. Of course, any
one of you have seen Kṛṣṇa?
Kṛṣṇa, when He was present in
the battle, Battlefield of
Kurukṣetra, at that time He was
about ninety years old. Ninety
years old. He had His great-
grandchildren. He married
sixteen thousand wives, and each
wife had ten children. And those
ten children, they also got, each,
ten, twelve children. And they
had children also. Because He
was at that time ninety years old,
He got at that time great-
grandchildren also. So His family
was very great. Now, if you see
the picture of Kṛṣṇa, you’ll see
Him just like a boy of twenty-
two, twenty-five years old. He
was so beautiful. He was so
beautiful. Then… That is the sign
of God. It is stated in Brahma-
saṁhitā, advaitam acyutam
anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ
purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ
ca [Bs. 5.33]. He is the original
person. Because from God
everyone has born, therefore He
is the original person, ādyam.
Purāṇa-puruṣam. Purāṇa means
the oldest person. Still, nava-
yauvanaṁ ca. Whenever you will
see God… That is the… This is
the sign of God. You’ll find Him
just like a youth, a new youth.
Youthfulness means, say, sixteen
to twenty-four years. So nava-
yauvanaṁ ca. That is the sign of
God. So He was so beautiful that
when He was a boy of fifteen
years old His, the whole, I mean,
of His, of the same age girls, girls
of His age, they were after Him.
He was so beautiful. So in beauty
He was superexcellent. In wealth
He was superexcellent. In
strength He was superexcellent.
And in knowledge…
Now, here is a book, Bhagavad-
gītā. Now, apart from other
books, other knowledge which
He imparted to other…, now,
here is a book which was
imparted to Arjuna. Now, it is so,
the depth of knowledge…, that
people are still considering,
great, great scholars. We are not
reading, but Dr. Radhakrishnan,
one of the greatest scholars of
the world—now he is the
president of India—he is
discussing. Professor Einstein, he
was living here in America. He
was a German Jew, and I think
he was living in America. He was
a great student of this Bhagavad-
gītā. Hitler. Hitler was a great
student of Bhagavad-gītā. And
there were many scholars still
reading Bhagavad-gītā, trying to
understand. Just see what best
of knowledge He has given. It is
made by Kṛṣṇa. So in knowledge,
in wealth, in strength, in beauty,
and in everything He was
opulent. Therefore He is
Bhagavān. You cannot accept
any ordinary man as Bhagavān.
So therefore Bhagavān. Now,
bhagavān uvāca. And because
He has been accepted as the
spiritual master… Just like a
teacher has the right to
sometimes rebuke the student,
so in the first instance He is
rebuking Arjuna in the following
words that
aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-
vādāṁś ca bhāṣase gatāsūn
agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti
paṇḍitāḥ [Bg. 2.11]
that “Arjuna, you are speaking
just like a very great, learned
man, but you are… You are… In
other words, you are a fool. You
do not know how things are
going on because paṇḍitāḥ,
those who are learned men, they
would not have lamented just like
you are doing.” That means
indirectly He says… Paṇḍitāḥ
means learned. Learned man
does not lament over a dead
body or a living body. Gatāsūn
agatāsūṁś ca. Asūn means life.
One has lost his life. And one has
got his life, a body, living body
and a dead body, living body and
a dead body. Just mark the
point, that “A learned man… As
you are lamenting over the
subject of killing your friends and
relatives, but a learned man
would not have lamented like
this. That means you are a fool.”
When He says… Just like if I say,
“Mr. Green, what you have done,
any intelligent man should not
have done this.” So this is
indirectly saying that “You are
not intelligent.” It is in a
gentleman’s way, speaking that
“Mr. Green, what you are doing,
no intelligent man can do this.”
That means “You are not
intelligent.” So here He say that
“You are lamenting over the
bodies of your relatives because
in the fight you are considering
that ‘My friends and my relatives
will be killed,’ so that means they
are living bodies, and you are
lamenting over the, over their
killing. So this sort of lamentation
is never done by a learned man.
A learned man never does it.”
Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca
nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. “Those
who are learned, one who is
learned, he does not lament over
the body, either a living body or
dead body. There is no question
of…” Now, because one who
knows the distinction between
the body and the soul, firmly
con… Just like you have heard
the name of Socrates. Soc…, a
great philosopher, Greek
philosopher. He believed in the
immortality of soul. So he was
punished in the court. Hemlock.
Hemlock was offered to him, that
“All right, if you believe the
immortality of soul, then you
drink this hemlock poison.” So he
drunk because he was firmly
convinced that “Even if I drink
this poison… My body will be
destroyed, but by destruction of
my body, I am not going to be
destroyed.” He was convinced.
So he did not lament. So a
paṇḍita, learned man, must know
that this body and soul, the
distinction, the difference
between body and soul… The
body is not soul, and the soul is
not body, and one who knows,
he is learned man. This
instruction is given first. So for
spiritual advancement this first
knowledge, that the body and
the soul is different… This body
cannot be identified with the
soul. You see? The soul is there,
but body is not soul. Body is not
soul. So every learned man
knows it, and we should be…
I think we can stop here.
PRABHUPĀDA: So Kṛṣṇa is, in
this sen…, He’s identified, that
bhagavān. Bhagavān means that
nobody can surpass His
knowledge. Because I have
already given the definition of
bhagavān, that a personality who
is in full, all the opulences—
wealth, strength, fame and
knowledge, beauty and
renunciation—He is God. You
see? So… Now, in this, at the
present moment, when people
are godless, I think, this
definition is convincing. If you
find out a personality that, one
who has got in full all these
opulences, He is God. Then it will
be very difficult to present an
ordinary man as God. You see?
You’ll find that in the Bhagavad-
gītā, when Arjuna was convinced
that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme
Personality of Godhead… But
because in future others will have
doubt about Kṛṣṇa, he requested
Kṛṣṇa that “Will You show me
Your universal form?” And Kṛṣṇa
agreed and showed him the
universal form. That means in
future any intelligent man,
accepting a so-called God, may
also ask him, “Just show
something, that you are God.”
Without showing something,
simply by false advertisement,
one cannot be God. So whole
mistake is that we do not know
what is God. We consider God
may be just like one of us. No.
The God who is controlling such a
huge affairs of universal
administration, He cannot be, He
is superconscious. That is
superconsciousness.
Now, here, aśocyān anvaśocas
tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase
[Bg. 2.11]. Now, the whole living
existence is a very subtle thing.
Now, this body, this body made
of earth, water, fire, air, sky, this
gross body; and behind this,
there is another subtle body.
That is mind, intelligence and
ego. So when we give up this
gross body, that subtle body
carries me to another gross body.
So when this, this body is lifeless,
that body, subtle body, is not
lifeless. Just like at night, when
this gross body is asleep, the
subtle body works. Therefore we
dream. So subtle body carries to
next life. And I have given in the
introduction that how one man
changes his body. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi
smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante
kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. Now, the
subtle body, I mean to say,
mind, intelligence and ego, when
these three things, psychic life, is
absorbed in a certain kind of
thought, the dying man gets a
similar body in the next life. The,
that we shall come when we
make progress in the study of
Bhagavad-gītā. Just like the air
passing over the rose tree carries
the flavor of the rose, and the air
passing over a filthy place carries
the flavor of that filthy place—the
air is pure, but because it is
passing over certain conditions, it
carries the flavor—similarly, the
mind, intelligence and ego carries
the flavor of our present activities
to the next life. That is the subtle
mystery of transmigration of the
soul from one body to another.
Now, if this, this life we purify
just like rose, then next life we
shall get a body which is full of
flavor. If, if, if in this life, if we
practice devotion of God, then
next life is to become the
associate of God. That cintāmaṇi-
prakara-sadmasu… We are
transferred to that planet. You
see? These are simple things.
The whole thing is in my hand. If
I want to be degraded, I can
prepare myself in this life for
such degradation in the next life.
And if we want to elevate ourself
to the highest perfection of life,
as to become one of the
associates of God, we can
prepare ourself like that. You’ll
find in the, in the advanced
chapters, that yānti deva-vratā
devān pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ [Bg.
9.25]. Now, we are trying to go
to the moon planet. Now, here,
in this life, if we cultivate ourself
for the same thought, the moon
planet… That means the moon
planet, about moon planet, we
have to hear, and we have to
think that “I shall go in such and
such place.” Unless you hear, you
cannot abide here. Just like our
friend, Mr. Cohen, he has left for
California. Now, so far I am
concerned, I have no idea of
California. Now, he has told me
that after reaching there, he’ll
write about the description of the
place. Now, suppose if, reading
that description of the place, I
think of going there, so I prepare
myself, “Oh, I must go there.” So
just like I, I was describing that
cintāmaṇi-dhāma, what sort of
trees are there. And you were
very much pleased that “I must
go there.” So we have to hear.
Unless we hear what sort of God
He is, what sort of God’s place is,
what is the mode of life there,
we cannot be attracted. We
cannot be attracted.
So here they say that gatāsūn
agatāsūṁś ca. There are two,
two sort of bodies in which we
are now entered. Now, suppose
this gross body appears to be
now dead and gone, stopped,
but one must know that subtle
body has carried him to another
body. So subtle body is not lost
life. The life is there. So here
Kṛṣṇa says that either of the
gross body or of… Subtle body
has to be also left. When you get
liberation, when you get
liberation, that subtle body, that
egoistic life, has also to be left.
Now, at any condition, the body
has to be left. So why one should
cry for this body? Therefore
Kṛṣṇa says that “A learned man
does not lament over this body.”
The whole question, that a soul is
different from this body, the
whole question is solved in one
verse. You see? Gatāsūn
agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti
paṇḍitāḥ. “One who is actually
learned, he does not, he has no
concern of this body. He’s
concerned with the activities of
the soul. So you are speaking of
so many things that ‘If these, my
friends, die, the, I mean to say,
their wives will become widow.’
These are all… According to the
bodily relation, you are speaking.
And you are posing yourself just
like a very learned man, but you
are a fool number one because
your whole conception is on the
body. Your whole conception of
argument with Me was on the
body, but you are, you are
posing himself just as if you are
very learned man.” So anyone
who has got conception, the
identification of this body, he’s
not a learned man. He’s a fool.
He may be, in the calculation of
academic education, he may be
B.A., M.A., Ph.D., DAC, or
something like, doctors and…,
but if he has got his identification
with this body, he’s not a learned
man according to Bhagavad-gītā.
Not only according, according to
whole Vedic literature. This is the
first instruction. This is the… If
we want to make progress
towards spiritual advancement of
knowledge, this preliminary
knowledge we must have, that “I
am not this body. I am not this
body.” This is the preliminary
standing of spiritual knowledge.
This is not advancement. This is
simply A-B- C-D, ABCD of
spiritual life. In the Bhāgavata
there is a very nice verse in this
connection in which it is stated,
yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-
dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu
bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ [SB 10.84.13].
Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-
dhātuke. Kuṇape means this bag,
this bag made of three elements.
Now, according to Āyurvedic
medical system, this body is
made of three elements: kapha,
pitta, vāyu. Kapha, pitta, vāyu.
WOMAN: Three elements?
PRABHUPĀDA: Yes. Kapha.
Kapha means cold, coldness.
WOMAN: Common.
PRABHUPĀDA: Cough, cough,
what do you call cough?
Coughing. Yes. Kapha, pitta,
vāyu: “coldness, heat and air.
Coldness, heat and air” Yes. Only
these three things constitute this
body. Therefore it is called a bag
made of three elements:
coldness, air and fire, heat. Heat,
coldness and air—this body’s
made.
WOMAN: What, what does
coldness stand for?
PRABHUPĀDA: Coldness, you can
take it for water, or secretion.
WOMAN: Water.
PRABHUPĀDA: Yes.
WOMAN: Yes. Water, fire and
air.
PRABHUPĀDA: Water, fire and
air.
Now, the Bhāgavata says that
yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-
dhātuke: [SB 10.84.13] “If
anyone, he’s identified with this
body made of water, air and
fire…” And yasyātma-buddhiḥ
kuṇape tri-dhātuke. This is a
body made of three things.
Now… And sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu:
“And if one thinks the issues, the
by-products of this body as his
own kinsmen…” Just like my
children, my wife, my relatives,
my father, my mother, my
brother, my nation, my society—
everything is due to this bodily
relation. And there are thousands
of women loitering in the street
of New York, and suppose I have
got some ma…, bodily connection
with you, I call you my wife. And
because I have got bodily
relation with you, all the children
produced by you, they are my
children. You see? So whole thing
is… The basic principle is wrong,
that “I am this body.” Now, from
the expansion of the body, the
whole thing, the whole thing is
false. Because I am not this
body, so my expansion of body is
also not I am. But whole world is
going on on this false impression.
The whole world is going on. The
fight, the fighting between one
nation and another nation—
because due to this body. So
yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-
dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. “One
who is identified with this body,
which is made of water, fire and,
water, fire and air, and the issues
from this body as kinsmen and
own men…” Yasyātma-buddhiḥ
kuṇape tri-dhā…, sva-dhīḥ
kalatrādiṣu: “And,” I mean to
“attachment, attachment for
such issues…” And bhauma-ijya-
dhīḥ: “And the land from which
this body has grown up, that is
worshipable.” Now everybody is
fighting for the land. “Oh, we are
Indian.” “We are Pakistani.” “We
are Vietnamese.” “We are
Americans.” “We are German.”
The fighting, so much fighting is
going on. The land, for the land.
So land, land has become
worshipable, so worshipable that
one is sacrificed his valuable life
for that land. You see? But the
land is so dear, why? This body
has become grown up from this
land. So that is also there, the
bodily connection.
So yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-
dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu
bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ [SB 10.84.13].
In the land… They have no
meaning for God. Now, the
Russian philosophy, they have no
meaning for God, but they have
every meaning for their land, for
the land. So land has been
identified as worshipable, and
they’re prepared to sacrifice
anything for the land. So
yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-
dhātuke: “One who is identified
with this body and one who
thinks the bodily off-shoots as his
own men, and the land from
which the body has grown as
worshipable,” yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ
salile.
Yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile. Now, in
Christian world also, that the
water of the Jordan River is
sacred is considered. Similarly,
Hindus also, when they go to
some pilgrimage, they take bath
on the sacred river. But one
should know that going to the
sacred place does not mean
simply to take bath in that water.
Real meaning of going to a
sacred place—to find out some
intelligent scholar in spiritual
knowledge. They are living there.
To make association with them,
to take knowledge from them—
that is the purpose of going to
pilgrimage. Because in
pilgrimage, holy places… Just like
I, my residence is at Vṛndāvana.
So at Vṛndāvana there are many
great scholars and saintly
persons living. So one should go
to such holy places not simply to
take bath in the water, but he
must be intelligent enough to
find out some spiritually
advanced man living there and
take instruction from him and
(be) benefited by that. But he
does not go. He takes simply
bath and purchases some goods
and advertises, “Oh, I have been
to such and such pilgrimage.”
Well… yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape
tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13] and
yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na
karhicij janeṣv abhijñeṣu: “He
has the attachment for
pilgrimage, for taking bath only,
but he has no attraction for the
learned people there.” You see?
So such kind of man is
considered as ass. Sa eva go-
kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. Go-khara.
Go-khara. Go means cow or…,
and khara means ass. So
practically the whole world is
moving as the civilization of cow
and asses because the whole
thing is identification with this…
The center is this body, and
expansion of the body, the
attraction, whole attraction is
there. Yes? You want to…?
WOMAN: Yes. In the Indian
places known as sacred places…
PRABHUPĀDA: Sacred, Yes.
WOMAN: …isn’t …sacred places…
PRABHUPĀDA: Yes.
WOMAN: …isn’t it also a fact that
there is more magnetism there
because of the meeting of…
PRABHUPĀDA: Oh, yes. Certainly.
WOMAN: …saints and more
people…?(?)
PRABHUPĀDA: Certainly.
Certainly. Certainly. Therefore
the place itself has got some
magnetism. You see?
WOMAN: Yes.
PRABHUPĀDA: Just like at
Vṛndāvana, at Vṛndāvana… That
is practical. Now here I am
sitting, New York, a very great,
the world’s greatest city, so
magnificent city, but my heart is
always hankering after that
Vṛndāvana.
WOMAN: Yes.
PRABHUPĀDA: Yes. I am not
happy here.
WOMAN: Yes, I know.
PRABHUPĀDA: I shall be very
happy to return to my
Vṛndāvana, that sacred place.
“But then why you are…?” Now,
because it is my duty. I have
brought some message for you
people. Because I am ordered by
superior, my spiritual master,
that “Whatever you have learned,
you should go to the Western
countries, and you must
distribute this knowledge.” So in
spite of all my difficulties, all my
inconveniences, I am here
because I am in duty. I, I… That
is my personal convenience, if I
go and sit down at Vṛndāvana, I
shall be very comfortable there.
And I’ll be, I’ll have no anxiety,
nothing of the sort. You see? But
I have taken all the risk in the old
age because I am in duty-bound.
I am in duty-bound. So I have to
execute my duty in spite of all my
inconveniences. That is the idea.
So this is the whole thing, the
whole basic principle of spiritual
advancement of knowledge. One
should first be convinced that he
is not this body. He is not this
body. Then other spiritual
knowledge will begin. This is the
basic principle. You’ll find it. You’ll
find it in the Bhagavad-gītā that
this situation of spiritual life is
called brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahman.
So
brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na
śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu
bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate
parām [Bg. 18.54]
So the, unless one understands
himself, he also cannot
understand God also. In his, in
his misunderstanding position…
Now, what Dr. Mishra is teaching
is very nice because he is
teaching that “Just first of all you
know ‘What I am, what I…’ ”
That’s very good. But that “what
I am” can be known from the
Bhagavad-gītā also, that “I am
not this body. I am not this
body.” That knowledge, at least
theoretically, one must accept,
that “I am not this body.” Now
Kṛṣṇa is describing that what is
the position. I am not this body.
That’s all right. Now, actually,
what we are? What we are? I’m
not body. That’s all right. Then
what we are? Now, the next,
next version is Kṛṣṇa… We must
always know that Kṛṣṇa… Here it
is said, bhagavān uvāca.
Bhagavān uvāca. Bhagavān
uvāca means that He has got so
extensive knowledge that there
cannot be any mistake. He’s
authority. He’s authority. So
whatever He says is right. Is
right. That is the conception of
bhagavān. Here it is not said,
Kṛṣṇaḥ uvāca. Because
somebody may doubt Kṛṣṇa, that
“Kṛṣṇa was a historical
personality. Why you should be
so much concerned with Kṛṣṇa?”
as is general view. But here it is
said, bhagavān uvāca. And I
have given you the definition of
Bhagavān, that He is all
knowledge. So whatever He will
speak, Bhagavān, there cannot
be any mistake. For ordinary
persons, there are four, I mean
to say, difficulties, four
imperfectness. Just like we are
ordinary man. We have got four
imperfectness. What is that
imperfectness? That we must
commit mistake. We must
commit mistake. Our
constitutional position at the
present moment is such that we
are sure to commit mistake. Even
greatest politician like Gandhi, he
committed mistake, and so many
great men, they committed
mistake. “To err is human,”
therefore, it is called, that any,
any man, however he may be
great in the estimation of this
world, he is sure to commit
mistake. And another
imperfection is that he is
illusioned.
WOMAN: Illusioned.
PRABHUPĀDA: Illusioned. Now,
illusioned you can see. Illusioned
means taking one thing for
another. That is called illusion.
Just like in the desert, accepting
the sand as water. That is called
illusion. Similarly, every one of us
who are identified with this body,
he’s under illusion. That is a false
thing, but he has no knowledge.
Even President Johnson, he’s
under illusion. Even the greatest
scientist, he’s under this illusion.
So that, one is sure to commit
mistake, and one is under
illusion, and bhrama, pramāda
and vipralambhana…
Vipralambhana means the
tendency for cheating.
WOMAN: That is the fourth?
PRABHUPĀDA: That is the third.
First is that one is sure to commit
mistake, one is sure to be in
illusion, and one is adapted to
cheat others. Now, he is
imperfect, but he wants to give
knowledge to others. That is
cheating. Everyone is imperfect,
but he wants to give knowledge
to others. Then you can ask that
“You are also giving us
knowledge?” No, I am not giving
you knowledge. I am speaking
Bhagavad-gītā. I am giving you
knowledge as given by Lord
Kṛṣṇa. It is not my knowledge.
WOMAN: But this is own
interpretation.
PRABHUPĀDA: Eh? Not
interpretation. It is reading.
WOMAN: One can cheat.
PRABHUPĀDA: I give you…
Cheat. No, that is also in the
definition of a conditioned soul.
These four principles are there. It
is not my manufactured thing.
The, these are information from
authoritative scripture, that a
conditioned soul has four
imperfectness. One
imperfectness is that he’s sure to
commit mistake. He’s illusioned,
and he has got a tendency to
cheat, and, above all, his senses
are imperfect. So anyone who is
above all these four
imperfectness—who never
commits mistake, who is never
illusioned, who never cheats
others, and who has got perfect
senses—He is God. Now, the
next question is that the
Māyāvādī philosophers, they say
that “Because I am now covered
in ignorance, therefore I see
individuals.” Yes.
WOMAN: Is that a main
claim?(?)
PRABHUPĀDA: Yes. My… This
individual experience that you are
Mr. Such and Such, you are Mr.
Such and Such, you are Mrs.
Such and Such, this individual
experience, is due to my
ignorance. And generally, they
give the example of a disease. I
think it is called, medical terms,
myopia. Myopia means they see
this moon in two. The eyes
become so defective that
whenever they see things, they
see two.
WOMAN: No, that's astigmatism.
PRABHUPĀDA: Uh, yes.
WOMAN: Myopia is when you
have to see very near.
PRABHUPĀDA: I said… It may
not be myopia, but some
disease.
WOMAN: Astigmatism. Some
sees, if somebody sees…
PRABHUPĀDA: YES.
SOMETIMES...
WOMAN: Astigmatism. In two, if
somebody sees. Astigmatism.
PRABHUPĀDA: YES.
WOMAN: In two. Is it a sickness?
PRABHUPĀDA: Yes. It is sickness.
WOMAN: In the eyes.
PRABHUPĀDA: Because, because
the thing is one, but due to my
disease of the eye, I see one
thing, two. That is a disease.
There is a disease like that. So…
WOMAN: Usually people who drink.
PRABHUPĀDA: Anyway, that’s an
abnormal condition. In abnormal
condition sometimes we can see
one thing into two, divided into
two. So now that ignorance, you
cannot apply to Kṛṣṇa because
He’s all-perfect. And if He is not
all-perfect, then there is no value
of His instruction. A man with
defect in knowledge cannot
impart instructions. His
instructions… Therefore the
whole Vedic process is
paramparā system. Paramparā
system means that I cannot
deviate. I cannot make any
interpretation. Evaṁ paramparā-
prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ
[Bg. 4.2]. You’ll find in the Fourth
Chapter. Now we are reading
Second Chapter. You’ll find, as
we have explained in the
introduction of Bhagavad-gītā,
that because… Just like I am
speaking to you. I am an
imperfect person. I cannot give
you any knowledge. I cannot
manufacture any knowledge. If I
do that, then I shall deceive you.
I can simply present before you
the original knowledge. I can
explain it in an understandable
way but not deviating from the
original text. Now, here it is
clearly stated by the Supreme
Personality of Godhead that na tu
eva ahaṁ jātu. Aham. Aham
means Śrī Kṛṣṇa Himself. Now
sometimes we make some
grammatical jugglery of words,
but I cannot understand. Now,
aham, “myself,” when I speak
aham, or “myself,” is applicable
to me. When you speak, the
aham is applicable to you. But
that does not mean because
there is a common understanding
of myself between you and me,
therefore I… Now that I and you
become one. When you speak,
you say, “I speak.” When I say, I
say, “I speak.” That does not
mean this “I” and that “I”
becomes one. So Śrī Kṛṣṇa says
like that, na tu aham.
WOMAN: Ah, yes.
PRABHUPĀDA: He. That means
this aham, Śrī Kṛṣṇa. And na
tvam: “And you.” That means
Arjuna. And na ime janādhipāḥ:
“Neither all these kings.” He’s
dividing the whole audience into
three: “Myself, yourself and
they.” And again He confirms it,
sarve: “all.” He never identifies
into one. So this is the version of
Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Now, if I say that our
interpretation of aham, I, myself,
yourself, and he, or she, different
vision, this is due to our
ignorance. You can say. Because
I am ignorant, it may be my
mistake, that I see differently
from you. But Śrī Kṛṣṇa, Lord Śrī
Kṛṣṇa, cannot see like that. He is
above all this ignorance because
He’s all-perfect. And we have
already defined that the Supreme
Lord is full of knowledge. So…
He’s full of knowledge, supreme
knowledge. Now, if the Supreme
Personality, with full knowledge…
He cannot commit any mistake.
WOMAN: No.
PRABHUPĀDA: How can He
commit any mistake? Then there
is no meaning of full knowledge.
If you are in full knowledge, then
how you can commit mistake? So
this ignorance of duality, because
they say that “We see two
because it is due to our
ignorance. All, everything is one,”
but here you cannot apply that
ignorance to Śrī Kṛṣṇa.
Otherwise, His instruction of
whole Bhagavad-gītā, which is so
importantly taken by all
authorities, all scholars, then it is
at once rejected. If it is supposed
that Śrī Kṛṣṇa was also to commit
mistake, or He was in imperfect
knowledge, then whole thing
becomes rejected. So it is not,
not like that.
So Śrī Kṛṣṇa, He is the Supreme
Personality of Godhead, He’s in
full knowledge, and therefore as
He says that “Either Myself or
yourself or all these persons,
kings and soldiers, who are
assembled here, they’re all
individuals. In the past they were
individuals, in the present we are
individuals, and in the future they
will continue to be individuals.”
Now, one thing… Suppose
another argument is that due to
ignorance… Just like an animal. It
thinks that there is water in the
desert, on the reflec…
WOMAN: What?
PRABHUPĀDA: Water in the
desert. Now, in the desert, due
to sun’s reflection… You might
have experienced in the street
also, during blazing sun. It
appears like water. Now, that
animal, because it has no
knowledge, it is, I mean to say,
flying towards water in the
desert. Although there is no
water. But a sane man like you
and me, or a human being, he
knows that there is no water.
There is no water. So this
direction, that there is water, this
mistake is committed by the
animal because he, it has no
sufficient knowledge. But one, a
human being who has got
sufficient knowledge, he does not
commit that mistake. Yes.
WOMAN: Does an animal make
that mistake? I thought the
animals…
PRABHUPĀDA: Eh?
WOMAN: …wouldn’t, would, uh…
PRABHUPĀDA: No, no. This is a…
WOMAN: …not see the water
that our eyes tell us that there is
a mirage in the desert.
PRABHUPĀDA: Yes. I mean to
say, any sane man who has got
the knowledge that “This is only
reflection of the sun; it is not
water,” he will never go there.
He knows that it is useless to
search water in the desert.
Similarly, if Śrī Kṛṣṇa is in full
knowledge, He cannot say that in
future also we shall all remain
individuals. He says that in the
future also we shall continue to
be individuals. Now, He cannot
give us misdirection. Suppose
we, in the future we shall not
remain. After liberation, we shall
not become, remain, individuals.
Then that sort of misguidance
cannot be given by Śrī Kṛṣṇa.
Just like a sane man cannot
direct you that “Just go there.
There is water in the desert.” A
man with perfect knowledge
cannot give you that direction. A
animal may go there. That is a
different thing. Similarly, when
Śrī Kṛṣṇa says that “In future
also, we, all these, yourself,
Myself, and all these, they will
keep their individuality,” so that
is not a misdirection. You want to
say anything?
WOMAN: Sure. But is that what
the Bhagavad-gītā’s saying on…
PRABHUPĀDA: Yes.
WOMAN: …I mean (being?) a lot
to it? (?)
PRABHUPĀDA: Yes. It is, it is…
I’ll, I’ll, I’ll give you, I’ll give you
the exact meaning. Na tu eva
aham: “Neither Myself.” Aham
means “myself.” Jātu. Jātu
means “at any time.” At any time
means present, past, future. Jātu
kadācit. Kadācit means “at any
time.” Nāsam: “Not that we did
not exist.” So na tvam. So this
aham, “myself and yourself,” na
ime, “neither these janādhipāḥ,
all these kings.” Now, this plural:
“Myself,” first person, “yourself,”
second person, “and these
janādhipāḥ,” third person. Na
caiva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ: “It is not
that in future also we shall not
exist like this, Myself, yourself
and all these.” You see? Sarve.
Now, here it is called sarve. They
never becomes one. Sarve means
all, plural number. Here means
janādhipāḥ. “As they are now
plural numbers, Myself, yourself,
and they, similarly, in future also,
we shall remain like that. We
shall remain like that.” Sarve
vayam ataḥ param: “After this.”
This is the clear version of
number—you can note down—
number twelve verse of the
Second Verse, er, Chapter of
Bhagavad-gītā.