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ANNOUNCER: The following is a
class on the Bhagavad-gītā As It
Is, 2nd chapter, text number 13
given by His Divine Grace A. C.
Bhaktivedanta Swami
Prabhupāda, recorded in March,
1966 at the Mishra Yoga Society
in New York.

PRABHUPĀDA: dehino ’smin
yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ
jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg.

This is thirteenth śloka. You can
open it. The Sanskrit word is

dehino ’smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā
dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na
muhyati [Bg. 2.13]


PRABHUPĀDA: Thirteen, yes.

STUDENT: “Just as boyhood,
youth and old age are attributed
to the soul through this body, he,
the soul, obtains another body.
The wise man does not get
deluded about this.”

PRABHUPĀDA: Yes. Now, the
wise man, the word, Sanskrit
word, is dhīra. Dhīra means that
one who is undisturbed in mind.
And our disturbance of the mind
is due to our ignorance. Suppose
I want to go somewhere. Now I
am in the station. Actually, it so
happened when I came to New
York first from India. I was to be
dispatched to Butler by the bus
station, but I was a new man. I
did not know the rules and
regulation. Of course, somebody
was guiding me. Still, I was very
much in disturbed condition, how
to get on the bus, how to get the
ticket, how… All these. So
disturbance of mind is due to our
ignorance. (someone enters) Yes.
Come in. Yes. So disturbance of
mind is due to our ignorance. So
here, a very nice word. (aside:)
You can come here. All right.
Here a very nice word is used:
dhīra. Dhīra. Dhīra means
undisturbed. Undisturbed. So this
we should, we should carefully
note, that our mind in the
material condition is always
disturbed, always disturbed. And
this is due to our unfavorable
condition. Because we are
actually spirit in identity and we
have been put into material
conditions. We can very well
experience. And we have, I got
experience, and here is Captain
Pandia. He has also experienced.
He may be more than
experienced than me. When we
passed through the sea on the
ship, although we are on the sea,
quite safe, still, when there is
some storm, when there is some
disturbance on the ocean, we
also become very much
disturbed, because that situation
is foreign to us. We are not so
much disturbed in the land as we
are disturbed in the ocean
because we know that our
position in the ocean is not our
natural condition. So we should
know that disturbance is due to
our unnatural condition.
Otherwise, there is no question
of disturbance.

So whole disturbance of mind…
It is described in the Śrīmad-

tat sādhu manye ’sura-varya
dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-
dhiyām asad-grahāt hitvātma-
pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ
vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta
[SB 7.5.5]

The… This is a verse in
connection with talks between
Mahārāja Prahlāda and his
father, Hiraṇyakaśipu. His father
was gross materialist,
Hiraṇyakaśipu. Hiraṇya means
gold, and kaśipu means soft bed.
So materialists, they are
concerned with gold and soft bed
for enjoyment. You see? So his
name was Hiraṇyakaśipu. And
the Prahlāda, his son… Prahlāda
means prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa āhlāda.
Āhlāda means pleasure. He’s
always full of pleasure. He has
nothing to do with material…
Because material pleasure cannot
give us pleasure. It is our
mistake. But because we have no
information of the spiritual
pleasure and because we are
conditioned by this material
body, therefore we seek pleasure
through matter. Now we have to
raise ourself from this position.
Then we can get unlimited
pleasure. We want pleasure, but
we do not want such pleasure
which ends. We want nonending
pleasure. That is our heart’s
desire. But in material pleasure
we cannot have that bliss. Even if
you take a very good foodstuff,
just delicious, still, after taking
some portion of it, you will feel
yourself satiated. Then that very
foodstuff, you’ll say, “No, no, I
don’t want any more.” Because
that ends. So that is not real
pleasure. Real pleasure is
defined: ananta. Ananta means
that which has no end. So that
pleasure you can have only when
you are spiritually realized soul.
That is possible. That is possible.
We are reading all these
scriptures, Bhagavad-gītā,
Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and there
are so many Vedic literatures that
if anyone wants to have spiritual
life, there is complete facility.
There is complete facility.

Now, this Prahlāda… Prahlāda
was a boy, a child, not boy. He
was only five years old. So his
father called him, “My dear son,
what you have learned from your
teacher best? Please explain.” So
he is explaining this, that

tat sādhu manye ’sura-varya
dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-
dhiyām asad-grahāt hitvātma-
pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ
vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta
[SB 7.5.5]

”My dear father…” And his father
was materialist. Therefore
materialists are called in Sanskrit
language, asura. Asura. There
are two kinds of human being all
the time: asura and deva. Deva.
Deva means human beings who
are connected with the Supreme
Lord. Their life is for realization of
the Supreme Truth. They are
called deva. Just like in higher
planets, there are also living
beings. They are called devatās,
demigods, because their
magnitude of pleasure is far, far
greater than ours. But because
they do everything in relation
with the Supreme Lord, therefore
they are called devatās, devatā.
Devatā means demigods. And
asura. Asura means just the
opposite. They simply enjoy life
for the matter of sense pleasure.
That’s all. So those who are
interested in sense pleasure, they
are called asuras, and those who
are interested, unending spiritual
pleasure, they are called devatās.
Devatā and asura does not mean
that asuras are very ugly and
devatās are very beautiful. Even
the ugly man can become a
devatā, or even a beautiful man
may become asura. That is due
to his mentality. Because, after
all, the soul is pure. When he is
in unnatural condition of life,
wants to enjoy simply the
material senses, he becomes
asura. So asura can be turned
into devatā. There is no

So Prahlāda Mahārāja… Just see.
The father was asura, and the
son was devatā. So asura’s son
can be devatā. And a devatā’s
son can be asura. Just like in
India. In India nowadays there is
a great movement for removing
the caste system because the
higher caste, brāhmaṇas, they
are claiming, due to their
birthright, higher position, and
the others, they are in
inconvenience: “Now, nowadays
the brāhmaṇas are doing the
same thing, what we are doing, a
śūdra. Why he should claim?” So
there is quarrel. You see? So
devatā and asura, the division is
that, of course, the… Of course,
according to our śāstra, the
brāhmaṇa family means devatā
family. But because nowadays
they are descendants, they have
deviated, deviated from the
brahminical culture, they are not
to be considered as devatās.
That is also mentioned in the
śāstras. They are called brahma-
bandhus. According to śāstra,
they are called brahma-bandhus.
Brahma-bandhus means son of a
brāhmaṇa but not the brāhmaṇa.
Just like a son of high court
justice. He can claim that “I am
the son of a high court justice.”
That’s all… But because he’s the
son of a high court justice, he
cannot claim that “I am also the
justice of the high court.” So that
consideration is there.

So asura, devatā, there is no
such formula that “In this line
only the asuras will come, and in
this line only the devatās will
come.” The asura can be
converted into devatā, and the
devatās also can be converted
into asuras, according to their
action. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā
sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ
[Bg. 4.13] In the Bhagavad-gītā
you’ll find that “This whole
division of caste, that is created
by Me.” Mayā sṛṣṭam: “I have
created.” But how it is? Now,
according to guṇa and karma,
according to quality and
according to his work. He never
says, “According to birth.” So just
see. Now, here, Hiraṇyakaśipu…
Hiraṇyakaśipu is asura, but his
son is devatā, Prahlāda. Now,
according to birthright, he should
be also asura, but no. He is
devatā, Prahlāda Mahārāja.
Prahlāda Mahārāja is counted
one of the great pers…, twelve
great personalities who can
distribute transcendental
knowledge. They are called
mahājana. Mahājana.

Now, this Prahlāda Mahārāja,
because he’s mahājana, his
statement should be accepted.
So he’s saying to his father,
asura-varya: “My dear father, you
are the greatest of the asuras.”
Asura-varya. Varya means
greatest. So even if he is father,
he addresses his father, asura-
varya, asura. “Because your aim
is simply sense pleasure.” You
see? So tat sādhu manye asura-
varya dehinām. The father asked
the son, “What you have learned,
the best thing?” So he’s also
saying sincerely before his father
the best thing that “My dear
father, for the dehinām…” Here
also the same thing, dehinām.
Dehino ’smin yathā dehe [Bg.
2.13]. Dehinaḥ. Dehinaḥ means
the spiritual spark who has
accepted this material body. This
material body is foreign. That will
be explained. Just like your coat
and shirt is foreign to your self.
Similarly, this material body is
foreign. So dehinām… Dehinām
means one who has accepted
this material body. So we are
accepted, mean… “Accepted”
means we have done something
by which we have been forced to
accept, forced to accept. Just like
if we are put into the prison
house, the prison house has got
separate dress. So when you are
put into the prison house, you
have to keep aside your own
household dress, and you have to
take that particular dress. If you
say, “No, no. I cannot accept this
dress. I am a gentleman. I have
got costly dress. I shall put on
that,” no, you must, forced.
Similarly, we, we living entities,
we are forced to accept different
kind of dress. There are
8,400,000 kinds of dresses like
this body. And your body, my
body, you see? Now we are here,
several ladies and gentlemen, but
you’ll find that nobody’s body will
be similar to the other’s body.
God’s arrangement is so nice that
everyone has got his particular
body according to his work. It is
so nice arrangement. You see.
You’ll find millions of persons,
and everyone you’ll find different
from the other. You won’t find
two similar persons. You see? So
dehinām. Because there are
different kinds of mentality, not
that all our mentality is one and
the same. No, no. We are… And
the law of nature is so finer that,
according to the different kinds
of mentality, they have got
different kinds of bodies. So
dehino ’smin.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that,
tat sādhu manye ’sura-varya
dehinām. Dehinām means “of
those who have accepted this
material body, for them.” And
what is their condition? Now,
dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-
dhiyām. Dehinām, one who has
accepted this material body, his
conditional life is always full of
anxiety. Not that, that we are
always in want. Even in your
duty. Just like our Captain sāheb
is here. I have seen in the ship
he has got very serious duty in
the ocean. He’s always consulting
the chart and the latitude,
longitude, which side the ship is
going. That is anxiety because so
many lives, so many property, is
under his control. Any, a slight
mistake, would play havoc. We
do not know. I was asking the
Captain sāheb, “Where you are
going?” But I do not know. I see
simply vast of water. But he has
got responsibility. He knows the
thing. So any responsible
officer… Any responsible… Your
President Johnson, he’s also full
of anxiety. I am also full of
anxiety. You are also full of
anxiety. Even a, a small bird,
you’ll find… You give a small bird
some grains. You’ll see like this:
“Is there enemy? Somebody’s
coming. Somebody’s killing me.”
So full of anxieties. This is the
condition. This is the condition.
So you cannot, you cannot be
free from the anxiety, dehinaḥ.

Prahlāda Mahārāja says, sadā
samudvigna-dhiyām. And why
this anxiety? Now, asad-grahāt.
Asad-grahāt: “Because he has
accepted this temporary body.”
He is eternal. A living spirit is
eternal, but he has been forced
to accept this temporary body.
This is my position. One should
be conscious of his precarious
position, that “I am eternal, but I
am encaged in a temporary body
which will not exist. However I
may try to make it youthful by so
many arrangement, but no…”
The science cannot give you
permanent life. That is not
possible. You may be, may be
proud of your scientific
advancement of knowledge, but
Bhagavad-gītā says that four
things… Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-
“My dear sir, however you may
make advancement in scientific
knowledge, you cannot stop
birth, you cannot stop death, you
cannot stop old age, neither you
can stop diseases.” You see? So,
so long we have got this body, so
we must have anxieties. That is
the law of nature. Now, here,
here it is said that… Now let us
finish that. Prahlāda Mahārāja
said, sadā samudvigna-dhiyām:
“My dear father, for persons who
have accepted this temporary
material body and is full of
anxiety always, for them, my
idea is that they should give up
this materialistic life and
surrender unto Hari.” Hari means
Bhagavān, the Supreme Lord.
That is the way of getting out
of… And actually, this is so. In
the Bhagavad-gītā you’ll find in
the last instruction to Arjuna is:
sarva-dharmān parityajya mām
ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66]
“This is the most confidential
knowledge I am giving you
because you are My friend and
because I love you very much.
Therefore this is My last word.”

So we can get free from all
anxieties as soon as we are
surrendered to Hari. That is the
whole system of spiritual
knowledge. Ārādhito yadi haris
tapasā tathā kim. If you accept
from the very beginning this
principle, that “I must surrender
unto the Supreme Lord,” then
there is no other necessity of
prosecuting your spiritual
knowledge. That is the final
solution of life. Ārādhito yadi
haris tapasā tathā kim. Tapasya
means penances, accepting
penances for spiritual realization.
Now, one who has accepted the
worship of the Supreme Lord, he
has no more anything to do for
spiritual realization. He has
realized. And nārādhito yadi haris
tapasā tathā kim. And after
undergoing so much severe
penances, if one does not
understand what is God, then
whole thing is spoiled. Tapasā
tathā kim. Whole penances is
spoiled because he could not
reach to the ultimate goal. So
ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tathā
kim, nārādhito yadi haris tapasā
tathā kim. Antar-bahir yadi haris
tapasā tathā kim. One who has
achieved that knowledge, that he
can see within himself and
outside always the Supreme
Lord, he has no more necessity
of any penance. And after
undergoing all sorts of penances,
if I cannot realize that God is
within me and God is without
everywhere, then all my
penances are spoiled. You see?
These are very nice.

So here, here it is said that dhīra,

dehino ’smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā
dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na
muhyati [Bg. 2.13]

Dehinaḥ. Dehinaḥ means “one
who has accepted this material
body.” Asmin. Asmin means “in
this world” or “in this life.” Yathā,
“as.” Dehe. Dehe means “within
this body.” Because dehinaḥ
means “one who has accepted
this body,” and dehe, “within this
body.” So I am sitting within this
body. Now, I am not this body.
Just like you are within this shirt
and coat, similarly, I am also
within this body, this gross body
and the subtle body. This gross
body is made of this earth,
water, and fire, air, and ether,
this gross body, this our whole
material body. Now, in this Earth,
in this planet, earth is prominent.
Anywhere, the body, material
body, is made of these five
elements: earth, water, fire, air
and ether. These are the five
ingredients. Just like this
building. This whole building is
made of earth, water and fire.
You have taken some earth, and
then you have made bricks and
burnt into the fire, and after
mixing the earth with water, you
make a shape of brick, and then
you put into the fire, and then
when it is strong enough, then
you set it just like a big building.
So it is nothing but a display of
earth, water and fire, simply.
That’s all. Similarly, our body is
also made in that way: earth,
water, fire, air and ether. Air… Air
is passing, the breathing. You
know. The air is always there.
This, this outer skin is earth, and
there is heat in the stomach.
Without heat, you cannot digest
anything. You see? As soon as
the heat is diminished, your
digesting power becomes bad. So
many things. This is
arrangement. Now, in this planet
we have got this body which is
where earth is very prominent.
Similarly, in other planets, other
planets, somewhere water is very
prominent, somewhere fire is
very prominent. In the sun
planet, the bodies there… There
are also living entities, but their
body is so made that it is fiery.
They can exist in the fire. They
can exist in the fire. Similarly,
Varuṇaloka, in the Venus, all
these planets, they have got
different types of body. Just like
here you can experience that in
the water the aquatics, they have
got a different type of body. For
years and years together there
are aquatic animals, they are
within the water. They are very
comfortable. But the moment
you’ll drag it to the land, it dies.
Similarly, you are very
comfortable on the land, but the
moment you are put into the
water, you die. Because your
body, bodily construction is
different, his body, the bodily
construction different, the bird’s
bodily… The bird, heavy bird, it
can fly, but it is God’s made
flying instrument. But your man-
made instrument, it crashes,
crashes. You see? Because

So this is the arrangement. Every
living being has got a particular
type of body. Dehino ’smin yathā
dehe [Bg. 2.13] And what is the
nature of that body? Now, here
the matter is being explained
that how we change our body,
how… But, but, but, because that
is a difficult problem for us
because we are engrossed with
the idea of identifying this body
with the soul. Now, the first A-B-
C-D of spiritual knowledge is to
understand that “I am not this
body.” Unless one is firmly
convinced that “I am not this
body,” he cannot make progress
in the spiritual line. So the first
lesson in the Bhagavad-gītā is
taken in that way. So here it is,
that dehino ’smin. Now, dehī, the
soul, soul. Dehī means soul. One
who has accepted this body,
material body, he’s called dehī.
So asmin, he is there. He is
there, but his body is changing.
You see? The body is changing.

Now, our body was formed in the
womb of my mother. That is also
described in the Śrīmad-
Bhāgavata, the physiology,
physiology of this body. It is said
there that according to our
karma we are put through the
semina of the father, injected
into the womb of the mother.
And the father’s secretion and
the mother’s secretion, that is
emulsified and takes the form of
a pea, and that pea gradually
develops. In three months, there
are holes, nine holes: the eyes,
ears, nose, and the…, just like
we have got nine holes. And in
seven months the whole body is
complete. Then the child gets
consciousness. And in ten
months it is just ready to come
out. So by air, the same air,
forces the child to come out of
the mother’s connection. Because
so long a child remains within the
womb of the mother, she, she
takes through the mother, so
there is intestinal connection
between the child and the
mother. So after the child comes
out, the intestinal connection is
cut away and he becomes a
separate identity. That is the law.

Now, the, our point is, as from
the mother’s womb, from the
very beginning of our birth, as
the body develops, develops,
similarly, after coming out of the
body, it also develops. But the
spirit spark is there, the same.
The body takes development.
So… Now, that development—
from this small child, he becomes
a bigger child, then he becomes
a boy, then becomes a youth,
then gradually a old man like me,
and then gradually, when this
body is no longer useful, then it
is, it has to be given up and
another body has to be taken—
this is the process of
transmigration of soul. I think
there is no difficulty to
understand this simple process.
Now, the soul is there, and the
body’s transforming every
moment, every moment,
imperceptibly. Just like if you
have seen some, some your
friend’s child small, and after five
years, you go to that friend’s
house and see the child: “Oh,
you have grown so big? You have
grown so big.” But the father,
mother cannot see. Because they
are seeing daily, they do not see
that “How my child is growing,
daily,” but a man who comes all
of a sudden after five years, he
says, “Oh, the child is grown up.”
So imperceptibly we are changing
our body every moment. Every
moment. That is also medical
science, that we are changing
our blood corpuscles every
moment. You see? Similarly,
what is the difficulty to
understand that, that the soul
transmigrates from one body to
another? It is very nicely
explained here. “As the owner of
the body is there within the
body, but the body is changing,
one after another, one after
another…” Dehino ’smin yathā
dehe, kaumāraṁ yauvanam [Bg.
2.13]. Here two examples are
given: kaumāram… Kaumāram
means the age up to fifteen
years, the age up to fifteen
years, that is called kaumāra.
And after fif…, from sixteen
years, so upwards, say, up to
forty years, one is youth. And
then, after forty years, one
becomes old. This is process of
this body, but it will be later on
explained the spirit soul within
this body, that is not changing.
The body is changing.

So dehino ’smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā
dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra
[Bg. 2.13]. Dhīra means the man
who is out of ignorance. Dhīras
tatra na muhyati. Dhīra means—
we began first explanation—dhīra
means one who is, one who is
out of ignorance. That means. So
one who knows, one who knows
the process of the body,
changing every moment, then
why he should lament when this
body is left and another body is
taken? Suppose if I throw away
this covering of my body and
take another covering, then what
is there, lamentation? What is the
cause of lamentation there? And
one should be, rather, glad that
the old garment is thrown away
and one new garment is taken
up. So this, this question…
Because Arjuna was disturbed
that “How can I fight with my
grandfather? That is all right.
That is my duty to fight, but how
can I fight with my grandfather,
Bhīṣmadeva, with my teacher,
Droṇācārya? It is not possible.”
So he is playing the part of a
fool, but he was not a fool, but
just to teach us. Unless he
becomes a fool like us, why this
Bhagavad-gītā will come?

The Bhagavad-gītā… Just like it is
play. Kṛṣṇa is constant
companion of Arjuna. So Arjuna
cannot be put into that
ignorance. It is for our benefit
that by the will of the Lord Kṛṣṇa,
Arjuna is put into that sort of
ignorance. So he is asking Kṛṣṇa
all these questions just like a
foolish man, and Kṛṣṇa is giving
instruction so that it is being
recorded in the history of
Mahābhārata for future
generations. So here Arjuna, he
was declining to fight, declining
to fight, that “How can I fight
with my grandfather?” You see?
“He is respectable. He has
brought me up since my father’s
death. And here is my teacher,
Droṇācārya. He has taught me
this military art. Whatever I am
warrior, my expertness is due to
him. And do you think, Kṛṣṇa, I
shall kill them? No, I can fight
with them. I can kill them, but it
is not my duty.” So Arjuna, and,
says like that. But Kṛṣṇa says,
“No. You must be dutiful. Never
mind who is that, your
grandfather or your teacher. No.
When there is fight… You are a
kṣatriya. A kṣatriya should not
be…, has no other consideration
in the fight. He must fight.”

So here is the thing, you see,
that Kṛṣṇa does not say that “You
become a nonviolent.” No. Never
says that. When there is question
of fighting for right cause, you
must fight. There is no question
of becoming nonviolent. You see?
Now, now, he is saying that
“Don’t be aggrieved. Even your
grandfather, Bhīṣmadeva dies,
even your Droṇācārya…, it will be
good for them because they are
now old enough, and as soon as
they are dead, they get a new
body. So you should not be
discouraged.” Then one is that
“Do you mean to say that
therefore a man should be
killed?” No. We cannot kill
without reason. No. That will be
a great sin. But this is a fight.
This is a fight for a cause. They
are not killers. It is said that a
kṣatriya who lays down his life in
the battlefield, he at once rises
up to the higher planets. You
see? Because for right cause, if
one lays down his life… Just like
so many people, they lay, lay
down their life for the cause of
the country. Do you mean to say
they are sinful or they are going
to hell? No, no, no. Those who
are laying down for the good
cause their life, their next life is
very brilliant. But if you commit
suicide without any reason and
written or without any cause,
then you’ll be sinful. You’ll be
sinful. These are… Of course, we
get knowledge from this… So,

dehino ’smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā
dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na
muhyati [Bg. 2.13]

So dhīra, one who has got
complete knowledge of the
constitution of this body, and the
constitution of the spirit soul,
they are not aggrieved when a
soul transmigrates from one body
to another. That is the sum and
substance of the whole, this

Now, here some philosophical
question may be raised. There
are two classes of philosophers,
that after liberation, after getting
out of this body, the soul
amalgamates with the Supreme
Soul. That question we have
already discussed. Still, there is
no harm in discussing it again
because any, I mean to say,
substantial knowledge, if it is
discussed one after another,
twice, thrice, it is better. Now,
Kṛṣṇa points out that every soul
is individual soul, every soul. And
that is our experience, that every
one of us, we have got some
individual consciousness, not that
my consciousness is just equal to
your consciousness. I do not
know what is going in your soul.
We are all individual souls. But
according to Māyāvādī
philosophers, they say, “Just like
the sky, the ether”—ether is
everywhere, within your body
and within mine, within
everyone’s—that “the ether has
taken a form due to this
particular body, but when the
body is vanquished, the ether, I
mean to say, amalgamates with
the greater ether.” This is called
ghaṭākāśa-poṭākāśa. Ghaṭākāśa-
poṭākāśa means this ākāśa is

Now, ākāśa means ether. Ether is
here. Now, that ether… Now, my
this body… Now, this body, there
is also ether. “Now, as soon as
this body’s destroyed, it is burned
or it is, another way, destroyed,
then this ether within my body
becomes amalgamated with the
greater ether.” So this sort of
assertion is not accepted in the
Bhagavad-gītā because the first
reason is that ether is a material
thing. Ether is a material thing.
And the soul is spirit. We’ll have,
in later ślokas, that soul cannot
be cut. Soul cannot be cut into
pieces. And the spirit cannot be…
acchedyo ’yam adāhyo ’yam.
We’ll get those ślokas. Soul never
can be cut into pieces. You see?
Just like here is a paper. I can, I
can tore this paper into pieces,
but it is not possible for the soul.
Then it, then it loses its eternity
or its stability. You see? So we
cannot compare ether with soul
because they are two different
subject matters. You see?
Analogy… Now, those who, those
who are present here, those who
have knowledge of logic,
analogy… Analogy is possible
when the two things are… When
there are greatest number of
similarities of two things, then
there can be analogy. Otherwise
there is no question of ana…,
analogy. Just like if I say, “Oh,
this lady’s face is just like moon,”
now there must be some
similarity in this face and the
moon. As the moon is bright and
a very beautiful looker, therefore
this face must be very beautiful
and very bright. But if the face is
ugly, how can I compare with
this moon? So whenever we
make some analogy, there must
be points, greater number of
points of similarity. Now, here
ether is a material thing, and soul
is spiritual thing, so there is no
similarity at all. At all. And
besides that…

So soul, the individual soul, is
different from the very
beginning, nitya. Nityaḥ śāśvato
’yam. In later verses we will
come to understand. The Lord
says that “These individual souls,
they are My part and parcels.”
Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ: [Bg.
15.7] “Jīva-bhūtaḥ, or these
living entities, they are My parts
and parcels.” How it is that? I
can give you a very good
example. Just like the sun, sun
and the sun rays. What is the sun
ray? Sun ray, if you analyze
physically, you’ll find small
molecules of raising (raysing ?)
atoms, shining atoms. This is
material. You see? The sun ray is
nothing but combination of, I
mean to say, shining atoms. It is
not a homogeneous thing.
Anything you take. Anything you
take. You are artist. You take a
point, any color, and you
photograph. If you analyze with
a microscope or magnifying
glass, you’ll find so many spots.
Is it not? You are also artist. So
in God’s nature, there is no,
nothing homogeneous. There is
nothing homogeneous. All
molecules, atoms, particles, even
in the matter.

So similarly, we, we living
entities, we are also spiritual
atoms. We are spiritual atoms.
And our magnitude also has
assessed in the śāstras. That
magnitude is stated in the
Purāṇas that keśāgra-śata-
bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca
[Cc. Madya 19.140] Keśāgra,
your hair. I have no long hair.
You have got. Now, you can see
the point of the hair, keśa-agra.
Agra means the point of the hair.
Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya [Cc.
Madya 19.140]. Now, the point of
the hair, you divide into hundred.
That is imaginable. That is not
imaginable by you, how the point
of the hair can be divided into
hundred. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya
[Cc. Madya 19.140]. Now, you
take one part of that division and
again divide into hundred. This is
beyond your experience, beyond
your power. The, by arithmetic
calculation the mathematicians
say that “The point has no length
and breadth.” Oh, this is, this is,
this is a disappointment. Because
he cannot measure the length
and breadth of the point,
therefore he says like that. But
point has length and breadth.
Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān.
Therefore a certain class of
philosophers, they are astonished
simply by seeing the great
magnitude of the Lord, but there
is smaller, smallest, aṇor aṇīyān.
These are much smaller than the
atom, but that is beyond our
experience. Therefore we say,
nirākāra. Nirākāra means we
cannot calculate the ākāra, the
actual form. Nirākāra does not
mean that it has no form. It has
form. Just see. That they say,
that the point has no length and
breadth. Similarly, the soul has
everything, length and… Within
that point it has got his head,
leg, everything, consciousness,
everything there. And because it
is beyond the calculation of our
human knowledge, therefore
they are disappointed: ”Nirākāra,
nirākāra, nirākāra.” Not nirākāra.
It has ākāra. But we are so, our
senses are so blunt that we
cannot calculate.

Now, now, this, in these days of
scientific advancement you take
a dead man. You sit down. Now,
we shall see how the soul
transmigrates from this body to
another. You cannot see. You
cannot see. Our eyes are not
qualified to see it. Therefore the
all the senses, they should be
spiritualized. If we want to see
the spirit whole… The Lord is
spirit whole. We cannot see even
the spirit part. Our, our… We are
very much proud of our senses,
but our senses are so imperfect
that… Now I see with my eyes,
but I cannot see my eyelid. You
see? The eyelid is always
attached with my eye, but I
cannot see. So our power of
using the senses, that is very
limited. So we should not depend
only on the senses. Pratyakṣa. It
is called pratyakṣa-anumāna.
There are three kinds of
evidences, pratyakṣa, anumāna,
and aitihya. Pratyakṣa means
that you can directly perceive.
That is called pratyakṣa. And
anumāna. Anumāna means you
can conjecture, make an…, “It
may be like this. It may be like
this. Perhaps it is like this.” This
is called anumāna. And the other
evidence is aitihya. Aitihya means
to take evidences from the
authority. So according… Out of
these three evidences, this
aitihya evidence, just like we are
taking instruction of Bhagavad-
gītā, sound, sound vibrated by
the greatest personality, Śrī
Kṛṣṇa, that sort of pramāṇa is
acceptable. That is the best. This
is the best way of acquiring
knowledge. Because so far direct
evidence is concerned, it is
impossible. Because our senses
are so imperfect, we cannot have
anything. We can, we can have
some direct experience of certain
things, but not for all, especially
for these spiritual things which is
beyond our experience.

So pratyakṣa means direct
evidence you cannot have. And
anumāna means speculation,
simply, “It may be like this. It
may be like that.” Oh, that is also
imperfect because our thinking is
also limited, because our senses
are limited. So our thinking
power, mind, is one of the
senses. Out of the ten, mind is
considered to be the eleventh
sense. There are five
karmendriya and five sensory
organs and working organs, ten,
and the mind is the chief. So
mind is also considered as one of
the senses, the chief senses. You
see? So because it is sense, it is
imperfect. So by mental
speculation we cannot have a
into right conclusion, by mental
speculation. Those are simply
speculating on mind, they can
make some progress to a certain
extent, but they cannot reach the
ultimate goal. It is not possible
by mental speculation; neither it
is possible by direct evidence.
The only, only possible evidence
is authority, authority. Just like
yesterday also I gave you that
example. Just like if a child asks
his mother that “Who is my
father?” now the mother says,
“Here is your father.” Now, if the
child says, “I don’t believe it,” so
he has no other source of
knowledge. Except the mother’s
version, that “Here is your
father,” he has no other
alternative to know who is father.
It is such a thing that neither he
can imagine, speculate, “Oh, he
may be my father, he may be my
father, he may be my father.”
Lots of father he can gather.
That is not possible. And neither
it is possible for direct perception.
The only possibility is the
mother’s evidence. Similarly, as
the mother is authority for the
child, similarly, the śruti, the
Vedas, they are called mother,
mother of knowledge.

So for such spiritual knowledge
we have to accept the authority.
Now, here, the Bhagavad-gītā is
authority. It is accepted. Don’t
think that it is a scripture of the
Hindus. No. It is for all human
beings. There is reason. There is
science. There is philosophy. It is
not dogmatic. So it is to be
understood simply. And not only
that, actually it is accepted by all
countries. Not only in your
country, but in other countries
also, Bhagavad-gītā is accepted
as one of the greatest book of
authority. So this is the process.
You should know it that the spirit
soul, as it is stated in the

dehino ’smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā
dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na
muhyati [Bg. 2.13]

As the soul is within the body and
the body is changing every
moment, similarly, the last stage
of change is called death. Death
is nothing but the final change of
this present body. That’s all. And
our death condition is for seven
months only. As soon as I leave
this body, at once I am injected
into other’s mother’s body
according to my karma. I may be
injected to a queen’s womb; I
may be injected to a dog’s
mother. You see? That is due to
my karma. You see? The father is
present there. The dog father is
present there. The king’s father is
present there. The devatā father
is present there. There is no
scarcity of father, but it will
depend on my karma, which kind
of father I shall take shelter. So
these things are, have to be
accepted from the authoritative
scriptures like Śrīmad Bhagavad-
gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavata. And
then it will be possible for us to
understand the things as they
are. There is no question of
sectarianism. There is no
question of this “ism” or that
“ism.” It is a question of pure

Thank you very much.